Template talk:Ability

Request for Comment
So the new ability box for hero pages is relatively complete, at this point (still needs all the valid entries for "ability" and "affects" input). Anyone have anything they'd like to see added to the box, or any changes of any kind, while we are revising it (also, what we should call the new template)?

Examples:


 * I think the BKB icon should link to magic immunity, not Black King Bar. Consider linking the damage type. The Affects field might get large; if it does we can scrunch the Damage field. I vote for naming the template, but it whatever it ends up as, it should definitely not contain the word "skill". I'm not digging the placement of the icons, but I don't have any great suggestions either. Something like this? I'm also not digging the look of the "blocked" icons; they're muddy. Perhaps a single stroke, something like this? --Kroocsiogsi 23:18, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Ohh, I like those suggestions. Thought about linking the damage type, the only problem with that is if we do a blue link, it might look odd, and if we do a black text link, it won't look like a link. Agreed about the positioning of the icons. Talk to Nickoladze about making different icons, he made the first ones. Baloroth 23:23, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Haha, I actually thought about mentioning the blue/black link dilemma myself, and then I thought "No, I'm getting way too technical here, everybody is going to think I'm weird", so I didn't say anything. Yeah, I agree, and I'm not sure what to do about it. Maybe make it grey text? Maybe it will look OK if it's black with an underline? :-p --Kroocsiogsi 23:39, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Magic immunity/Linken's Sphere icon proposal
I'm not a big fan of the X'ed out icons since they look kinda blurry, so I made some grayed-out versions of the icons that could be used to indicate that the ability isn't blocked instead. An extra benefit to grayed-out icons is that they can be split in half to indicate partial blocking. For instance, Bane's Fiend's Grip disables through Magic Immunity, but it won't deal any damage. There are quite a few partially-blocked abilities in the game so it'd be nice to have the ability to show that.

Thoughts? I'd like to hear what other people think instead of just going and changing it myself. --Pigbuster 20:13, 24 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Weak support. I agree that the icons should be tweaked. I think this proposal is probably an improvement. The ideal icons still elude me. --Kroocsiogsi 20:25, 24 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed with Kroocsiogsi. Those look alright, and the present ones could use some tweaking. We could use those, I don't really have strong feelings one way or another. -Baloroth 20:48, 24 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I have to agree, I think there's a better solution than grayed-out icons, but I still think it's an improvement so I'll get to work on changing them up. Note that I just noticed that the tiny BKB icon has blue edges that shouldn't be there, possibly because the original creator built off of the mana icon to get the right shape. I'll fix that while I'm at it. --Pigbuster 22:05, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Done! --Pigbuster 22:56, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

The "Partially blocked by Linken's/BKB" tooltip doesn't have any translations at the moment. That'll need to be done before other language wikis can start using the partial icons. --Pigbuster 23:04, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Maybe we should move Linken's Sphere and Black King Bar icons
I think you need to move the icons, because, for sentences in Russian there is too little space and it looks bad!


 * Dragon Slave now looks like this.


 * And this is my version.

--aUSS 10:19, 31 March 2012 (UTC)


 * That might work if you make the background to the icons the same as the bar (the white blocks behind them look out of place). Otherwise, we could possible put the icons into a single column on the far right (it looks like there is room for that). I'll play around with it later if I get the chance. -Baloroth 18:23, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Item Ability Template
It's been bugging me for a while how items have their abilities described through text alone while heroes keep all the pretty templates to themselves, so I went ahead and made some adjustments for them.

It basically just removes the image and changes the header color. Right now it's just linked from my personal sandbox, since I'd like to hear what people think before making adjustments to such a major template. --Pigbuster 19:35, 17 April 2012 (UTC)


 * An interesting idea. It would be nice if the template also listed what other items it didn't stack with (for example, Vlad's doesn't stack with Basilius) in some consistent fashion other than just listing it in the description (not that that doesn't work, I'm just wondering if there is a more elegant way to handle it). Also, I'm not a huge fan of the color, TBH. Baloroth 20:17, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I just copied over the color that was used for Template:SkillboxMinimal. I think it's a good idea to distinguish item abilities from hero abilities in such a way, though the color could alway be changed to something else if there's a consensus. --Pigbuster 20:31, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, notes are still a thing for item abilities, so you can use those for specifying what doesn't stack and such, as I just added in. --Pigbuster 20:38, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I like it, although I would prefer the item's image to be in there. Maybe get rid of the orange and use the agility green or intelligence blue, as we're using strength red EVERYWHERE right now. - Nickoladze 07:17, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I figured an image is unneeded since this template would be used on item pages, which already have infoboxes displaying the items' images. Also, I think the main reason strength red is so prevalent is that it's kinda the "main" color of Dota, what with it's logo being that color and all. That said, I tried out int blue and agi green and was pleasantly surprised! I think I prefer blue but they're both rather nice, and maybe green would be more sensible since most carries are agility, and carries need items, ergo, green for the item abilities. That's probably looking way too hard into it, though. :P --Pigbuster 07:37, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

I do like those colors. Maybe one for active abilities and one for passive? Just a thought. Be nice to be able to distinguish them visually some way (since there isn't the image-effects we have for hero abilities). Not really needed, of course, since it says it in the abilitybox, just might be a nice touch. Baloroth 14:48, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer we use just one of the colors for all item abilities, because then we could use the other color for something else; NPC abilities, for instance. If there are no other objections, I'd like to implement these adjustments into the actual template and get to work on adding them to the pages. I'd probably just go with the off-yellow I used before and make a topic in general wiki discussion for the color adjustments, since that seems like a wider style-related discussion. --Pigbuster 17:10, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Functionality added. --Pigbuster 20:00, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

bkbtext/linkentext
I would like to remove or, even better, repurpose these variables. Tooltips are useful for informing users what a particular symbol means, and the text "Blocked by Magic Immunity/Linken's Sphere" for the tooltip is just fine. However, I do not like hiding valuable information inside of those tooltips. It's much better to have information about magic immunity out in the open rather than making the user mouse over an image to get at it, especially since we can't count on the users to actually know that they can get information that way. I've determined before that the best way to do this is to just make the first note for the ability be about its magic immunity properties, but after the Aghanim's upgrade adjustment, I'm wondering if we could do the same thing for magic immunity/linken's information and just put it right inside the ability box:

This would only be for abilities that actually warrant having that information. For most abilities, which are either fully blocked or not, the solitary icon in the header would work fine. --Pigbuster 23:24, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I supposed adding a section below the Aghanim's line for partial BKB blockage would be fine. That's the only time it's needed. I've been meaning to start this huge project to centralize all the ability data onto one template, I'll work it into that template once I get that done. Any other suggestions for the template while I'm at it? - Nickoladze 00:14, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Making the damagetype a link would be nice. I could actually do that now but I haven't gotten around to it. Also, for abilities that disable, a way to indicate what kind of disable it is (stun, silence, entangle, etc.) Honestly, is pretty decent, I'm interested in what your ideas for a new template are. --Pigbuster 01:07, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

New Symbols for purgeable abilities
So I was going to (re)start testing all of the buffing/de-buffing abilities tonight to see which were purgeable after realizing I didn't have to use Diffusal Blade with it's annoying limited charges to do so. I was thinking we could add a mini-icon for Template:Symbol like the BKB/UAM/Linkens ones to indicate if it can be purged or not and add the appropriate code to the ability template, but I'd need someone to make up some icons for it (either the icon for the Satyr_Camp or possibly Brewmaster's Dispel Magic, I was thinking) like the existing ones.

Also, let me know if anyone has any objections to adding this to the ability template in the first place. -Baloroth 20:06, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I still have the file for the icons I made hanging around, I could see about making one. I'm probably going to use diffusal blade because every other icon so far has used an item. I have to update all of the icons with the redone item images, actually. --Pigbuster 08:29, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Move Notes below Ability for Mobile Readers
I have been reading the wiki quite a bit lately on my tablet, and I find it's extremely difficult to read the notes next to abilities (really, any of the side-bar notes) on a mobile device.

To see what I mean, try shrinking your browser window and notice how the ability box stays a fixed size and the notes squeeze into a tight narrow column with at most 3 words per line.

I propose moving the notes box under the abilities box. It will be more in line with the flow of the page, and it will allow people with smaller screens to read the notes.--Amouravski 18:37, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Icon proposal
Like the Magic Immunity block/Linken's Sphere block/Purgeability/Illusion use, it could maybe be possible to add a icon to state if the passive is disabled or not (or partially, we never know) by Doom. Lykrast 17:03, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Notes for Ability wrapper
I find Template:Ability_wrapper which can use in translation, but it lacks notes section. what should I do to add them and use Ability wrapper ?

ok, I know how to do --Lycsjm 05:52, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

About the UAM icon
I was going to add to some attack modifier spells that they are not unique attack modifiers, but found out it's right now not possible to simply change uam = Yes to uam = No. I think it would be nice if it would also have the Yes and No option and a grey icon, just like bkb, linkens, purge and illusion use ones.

Here an example. I set uam = No, but it still says that it is one.

"Type = aghanim's" is broken
Can someone fix the template so when adding type = aghanims turns the red top border purple again? Right now it shows it like this

Bu3ny (talk) 00:23, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Template:Color ?-- KennyTHPS 17:32, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Property: Notes error with sound links
It seems like that stuff.mp3 causes an error, as you can see here. I tried to change the property to code and string, but they can't deal with that either (but Property:Sound is working with string..). Is there a way to fix that?  Bu3ny  (talk) 20:02, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Lore
Can u change it to ? It looks weird if there is no lore in dat ability --Dotalim0204 (talk) 11:05, 17 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Done.  Bu3ny  (talk) 13:14, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Ty very much :D --Dotalim0204 (talk) 13:23, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Translation
(zh-hant): Pure --> 純粹傷害 HP Removal --> 生命移除 Dispellable with any dispel. --> 可被任意驅散所驅散 Undispellable. --> 不可被驅散 --Dotalim0204 (talk) 11:23, 4 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Dones.  Bu3ny  (talk) 11:49, 4 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Ty --Dotalim0204 (talk) 11:52, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

(pt-br): Pumpkin Basket --> Cesta de Abóbora Dispellable with basic dispels. --> Dissipável com dissipadores básicos. Dispellable with strong dispels. --> Dissipável com dissipadores fortes. Dispellable with any dispel. --> Dissipável com qualquer dissipador. Undispellable. --> Não é dissipável. Modifiers     --> Modificadores SiegelZ (talk) 03:28, 14 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Done.  Bu3ny  (talk) 11:23, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * thx, Bu3ny. missed modifiers SiegelZ (talk) 03:48, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

(zh-hans): 总魔法量的 --> 最大魔法值的 --Elite stay (talk) 18:50, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

(de):Template is missing closing brackets and a copy-paste error is present


 * Fixed.  Bu3ny  (talk) 12:28, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

(pt-br):

SiegelZ (talk) 02:48, 18 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Added.  Bu3ny  (talk) 11:00, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

(zh-hans): Target Tree --> 树木目标 --Elite stay (talk) 01:09, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Few minor things
There is a problem with mana costs that use a percentage of max/current mana:

1. The text doesn't fit into the ability box (see ) and 2. the mana symbol is too small for some reason on this page.

My suggestion would be to move the mana symbol a bit further left (maybe right in the middle of the cooldown symbol and the right border of the ability box). I don't know how to fix 2. though.

--Psion1C (talk) 16:16, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

The 1st point got already fixed while I was writing this. :D

I have two more things:

1. The vertical alignment of the text next to the symbols (e.g. bkbblock) is not centered correctly any more. It didn't get updated accordingly since the introduction of bigger symbols.

2. The horizontal alignment of Modifiers is not the same as the one of the other traits/values (see ). This looks a bit weird. My suggestion would also be to leave a bit more space between the original traits/values and the modifiers' section, which is not enough as seen in the example.

--Psion1C (talk) 16:55, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Can someone add about half a paragraph after the mana and cooldown symbols, so this section is a bit more visually distinguishable from the bkb etc. interactions section? I guess it should only be there when there are some mana/cd symbols above the paragraph and some interactions symbols below it. --Psion1C (talk) 15:42, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Here is how the template currently looks like and next to it is the space I would add (basically about the space that is between the last symbol and the Modifiers section): [pictures removed because of image host]

--Psion1C (talk) 15:55, 5 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Molldust (talk) 13:33, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Ty, there is only one little problem with the new spaces - they should be conditional. Here are some examples where they either are missing or shouldn't be there:

1. In general, the space between the normal traits and the mana/cd section should only occur if there is a mana cost/cd for the given ability. (I haven't found a case where this "rule" doesn't apply)

2. Likewise, the space after the mana/cd section should only exist if there is any interactions symbol below. (Also, here a case where it is missing completely )

3. I don't know why but I have found this one case where the spaces are completely missing.


 * The spaces are bound to the cd/mana section. If there is neither, there is no extra space. This means, as you noted, that it does not matter if other symbols follow or not. I definitly won't make that space conditional, because it introduces too much code and makes it hard to maintain. I can revert the change and drop the extra space if you want. Second option is to split mana and cd into separate lines. Molldust (talk) 16:38, 18 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I hope at least the biggest inconsistencies can be fixed. How about binding the second space to the symbols section instead of at the end of the mana/cd section? If this was possible, most of the problems I discribed should get fixed. --Psion1C (talk) 14:49, 19 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I saw that coming. No it's not possible to bind it to the symbols section because I don't know which is the first symbol to show up. Inserting a space that only occurs when one the many symbols occur is a bit of an overkill as mentioned above. Molldust (talk) 09:26, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I just wanna fully understand what you mean, that's why I ask this. How is it possible that you could add the spaces by binding them to the mana/cd section with no problems even though there are different possible configurations of mana and cd (also including more than one symbol)? They still only show if there is at least one entry in this section but get fully skipped if there is none. Or did this already include some sort of work-around? --Psion1C (talk) 18:39, 28 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Brilliant question. Mana and cooldown are two elements that are stacked horizontally, so I can add the vertical spaces to each of them without any worries because the biggest one takes priority instead of adding up. I only check for casual mana and cooldown and hide both if none are present. I currently do not check for maxmana/currentmana, but it seems there is no ability that has no cooldown and uses maxmana/currentmana. The vertical width of cd/maxmana is a simple switch between two cases, relatively easy as well.
 * bkbtext, linkentext etc are stacked vertically. Means if I apply a fixed spacing like for cd/mana they simply reoccur after each element. I had to check if any of the preceding elements is present and do this at each of the 6 elements except the first. Furthermore if there are new elements added or the order changed, I had to adapt the whole thingy, which is very bad in terms of maintainability.
 * All in all, you are right. The mana/cd is a complete mess and full of exceptions. It it indeed possible to have the same kind of mess with the remaining symbols but twice as worse. But I'd rather put mana/cd in separate lines than going the mentioned route. The only thing that prevents me from splitting mana and cd is the fact that it would be a regression in comparison to the old template. The spacing was suboptimal in the old template already, so I don't have to be as tolerable :p Molldust (talk) 09:10, 29 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I have been thinking about this as well as looking into the code, although I don't fully understand it. I was asking myself if it wasn't possible to add an extra line like this above the interactions section: Check if there are any of the possible interactions used, and if yes, then show a space.
 * Another idea would be to simply add a fixed space after the mana/cd section that appears no matter how many symbols are used thereafter or if there even are any. --Psion1C (talk) 04:29, 2 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I could indeed do this change, but my heart bleeds when introducing empty elements just for the spacing. The second suggestion is the way it's currently done, maybe the 8px are too few to notice. Molldust (talk) 07:45, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

While talking about spaces, gonna throw this one in here.. SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE. And I don't like the spaces above and below the ability/affects/damagetype pieces.  Bu3ny  (talk) 12:42, 2 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Ahhhha, space core. I regret playing Portal 2 so much. That voice sucks. --Elite stay (talk) 13:20, 2 October 2016 (UTC)


 * @Bu3ny, change it how you want it. Molldust (talk) 14:17, 2 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Oh, regarding my second suggestion, I meant it so that the space is independent from both the mana/cd section and the interactions section, and basically just always appears at its place. --Psion1C (talk) 16:38, 2 October 2016 (UTC)


 * If there's another (complicated) space issue, I swear I gonna put mana/cd into seperate lines :s Molldust (talk)

Added missing Turkish translations
http://pastebin.com/FY5zA59G


 * (Not by me, but this made me check it) Molldust (talk) 13:37, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Documentation examples
Can someone add a break in front of the aghs values for cooldown and mana to the second example of the documentation? It just looks awkward atm. --Psion1C (talk) 20:05, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Doc is not protected ;) Molldust (talk) 21:32, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, didn't know that. Changed it by myself. (--Psion1C (talk) 23:58, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

value = Unknown
Add it for Shedd's Cleaver/zh-hans and other old abilities plz. --Elite stay (talk) 03:25, 29 September 2016 (UTC)


 * If you mean auto-translate I think it's easier to keep it like it is. Adding value = 未知 shouldn't be too much of a hassle. Molldust (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Generic talents
As this hasn't been discussed before, should talents, that are not tied to a certain ability, be displayed in the template? I'm talking about those 20% cooldown reduction and cast range improvements.

Pro:
 * Talents are limited to exactly this hero.

Contra:
 * Cast range and cooldown affects items.
 * Stolen/devoured abilities are affected by those benefits
 * In two cases there are multiple cooldown reductions.
 * Mandarin Core and Arcane Rune are not included as well. We probably should note values as well /s
 * It does not add much valuable information to the template. Estimating a 20% cd reduction is not too much of a burden.
 * The values will get outdated and it's not advisable to put SMW code into the values.

Mixed:
 * Rubick does not benefit from generic talents. On the other hand Rubick does not benefit from specifc talents, too.

From my point of view, the downsides of generic talents are much higher. Molldust (talk) 16:33, 18 February 2017 (UTC)