Dota 2 Wiki:Discussion

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PatchDiff
I noticed a few patch diffs in the template mainspace (all named Template:PatchDiff/...). I'm pretty sure it's not common practice to store patch diffs in a wiki database and transclude them on the mainspace in this dimension. The latest diffs are from late 2013, so one can assume this practice has been given up?

In my honest opinion, Special:Nuke looks very promising without looking back. The diffs neither add any value to the overall patchlogs, nor anybody will ever dig through them to find worthy information (if there is).

Creator has been RJ with bot support. Molldust (talk) 18:06, 6 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I believe RJ stopped doing them because he didn't have the time. I would actually prefer we still had patchdiffs, no reason to remove the old ones... - Lemoncake  (talk) 18:15, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Bureaucratic and administrative duties
Heads-up: This is a purely constructive advice! I have some long term experience as head admin at a medium sized wiki myself and I'd like to share some of my observations.

Blocking, protected pages and titles


 * Special:BlockList lists IPs that are blocked for an infinite amount of time. Most IPs change every 30 days at maximum and it sometimes happens that another user cannot edit the wiki because he got a banned IP. The chances are pretty low, but I already had the case.
 * Special:ProtectedPages and Special:ProtectedTitles look very arbitrary and inconsistent. A lot should of them should be less restricted, while others like Template:Unit infobox should be semi-protected.

Revoking admin status

List


 * Help:Group rights lists a lot of inactive admins, which should get their status revoked.

Wiki Guardian

List

I saw the discussion that the group has no purpose anymore and should be deleted completely.


 * User:Smokie is the only member, but he isn't even affected due to his Curse status.

bureaucrats (lower B) (= bureaucrats user group)

List

The group is empty and can be deleted completely. Pay attention to the plural s.

Bureaucrats (Capital B) (= bureaucrat user group)

List

Currently there is no regular active bureaucrat. Three of them are totally unavailable and should get their status revoked:


 * User:Azxiana is a Curse admin and is not bound to restrictions (see User:Sigilbaram).
 * User:Collink is neither active in present or past.
 * User:Mpcovcd is inactive since 4 years.

That leaves User:Robjackson, who seems pretty busy. It's really recommended to put one of currently active admins in charge of a bureaucrat to edit admin and bot user groups. The alternative would be to grant the specific rights to revoke and grant the bot and admin status to all admins. The latter is independent from the right, so the bureaucrats can still only be demoted by themselves.

Molldust (talk) 08:39, 18 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Should have noted that I was referring mostly to the zero edit admins, not the old elite. Molldust (talk) 16:50, 18 March 2016 (UTC)


 * FWIW, I endorse all of this, including the removal my own admin rights. —Kroocsiogsi (talk) 22:32, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * But we miss you kroo :( Lemoncake  (talk) 22:39, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

So I notice the extreme need of editors is at request.
Exactly how many editors are known and active currently, though? 175.139.108.234 20:43, 16 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Most active editors are (no particular order)


 * English space
 * Bu3ny doing basically everything related to Dota2 game mechanics and some internal stuff
 * Molldust mainly doing templates and smw, i.e. intern stuff
 * Lemoncream Mainly doing Dota2 updates and aaaallll the hats
 * Psion1C Doing many fixes throughout articles, like typoes, layouts, corrections, etc, basically cleaning up
 * Diegokamu, new guy who seems to be active, currently helping updating hero pages to the new layout


 * Other language spaces (note that they also do edits on english spaces, but are mainly focused on their lang versions)
 * Medoke, /ru
 * Elite stay, /zh-hans
 * Dotalim0204, /zh-hans and /zh-hant
 * SiegelZ, /pt-br
 *  Bu3ny  (talk) 21:01, 16 June 2016 (UTC)


 * User:Bokoloony is doing a great job with the hero lore. Molldust (talk) 21:37, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

I guess I could join, but so far, as an anonymous, I've been checking out my favourite heroes and making their pages more appealing. Also, cleaning up certain discussion pages sometimes. 175.139.108.234 13:26, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

For DOTA 2 players who like fan fiction
Hello guys, I am Venz412. you can answer this Question and say it to me at my talk page. The Question article is needed for your answer.

Questions

 * 1) 1. If you want to add a cartoon character. what is it???
 * 2) 2. What skill do you want to add for your created character? from Dota 2 or not?
 * 3) 3. What faction does it want and roles to fit?

Preparations

 * Completely new (and initially empty) wikis would have to be spun up for each language you intend to keep.


 * The interwiki prefix table Special:Interwiki would have to be edited to point to each separate (non-english) instance


 * What do we do with /de /vi /th /pt-br pages?
 * If they stay on the english wiki, there's little point in moving /ru and /zh in the first place because we keep the hazard of language specific coding. Molldust (talk) 09:55, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not 100% sure on which languages to keep. Ideally I'd like to keep, in order of importance: /ru -> /zh -> /pt-br -> /de -> /th -> /vi -> /es -> /fr. Everything else can go. But if that's too much work then everything after /de is negotiable. I just feel kinda bad for the people who put so much work into /vi and /th. - Lemoncake  (talk) 10:51, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * User:SiegelZ would do /pt-br, User:Bu3ny and me could work on /de. Molldust (talk) 17:25, 4 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Wikis can only share the image store, everything else (i.e. all other namespaces) must be duplicated.
 * The only blocker is SMW regarding this issue. Molldust (talk) 09:55, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Are all media files shared, sound/video etc? - Lemoncake  (talk) 10:51, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * We've had some hiccups with sound files in the past, but i believe this had been fixed. I will ask in the new year. — Game widow (talk) 13:18, 24 December 2016 (UTC)


 * All the pages for a given language would have to be exported from the english wiki and imported to the new separate wiki
 * If this can be done automatically together with a page rename (Items/ru -> Items), it's no problem. Should probably be made for these four namespaces: main, main_talk, category, category_talk. Molldust (talk) 09:55, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * "If" is a big word. To export all the Russian pages, for example, someone would first have to comb through your 40K+ pages and identify them. By default the export process only exports what you tell it to and the only grouping i know of to tell it to selected all pages within a category. Have a look at Special:Export, you'll see. If you can group all the pages you want to export into separate language-based categories, that would make the process much simpler. Any renaming then would take place between the export and the import. That involves manually editing the exported XML file, but it's entirely manual. Removing "/ru" from page names is a trivial search and replace, i agree, but translations of titles are page by page. — Game widow (talk) 13:25, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Including redirects, I find 11731 /ru pages, and 495 /ru categories. Medoke  18:34, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * We would keep the english page titles for the start. This way the links won't be as broken and the transition can be made over time with more editors. Molldust (talk) 23:24, 24 December 2016 (UTC)


 * All the templates would have to be duplicated on the new wikis and fixed to work in the new environment.
 * Category:Templates are not too many and it's a very good reason for a cleanup. They will work by default on the new wiki, they need no functional adaption. Only the translation strings will have to updated, but at least show english by default. Molldust (talk) 09:55, 24 December 2016 (UTC)


 * All the links would have to be updated on both wikis
 * English links will not be affected by default. Non-en links will break and there's no way around it. Many pages will be moved to language specific names anyway. Bots will be able to fix selected links, but not all links in general. Molldust (talk) 09:55, 24 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Template:Lang would have to either be completely rewritten to work entirely differently, or removed (with all the work that goes into that since it's used by most of your templates)
 * I hope the template is gone once the the process is complete.


 * SMW properties will have to be redone on the other language wikis. High priority!
 * Redoing the properties is peanuts. Filling them with information is tricky because ideally we want to share the SMW values across languages. We should look at mw:Extension:External_Data or have any sort of plan for this. Molldust (talk) 09:55, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * That's not one of our default extensions, so it would have to be submitted for vetting. I have no control over that process other than to ask for vetting process. If the extension is not accepted, what would you do? — Game widow (talk) 13:18, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * mw:Extension:Translate is very intrusive to the english pages and requires all non-EN pages to be retranslated. Furthermore it may not work across different subdomains anyway and is not part of the default extension set. I'm out of ideas honestly. Manually updating all stats and values on 3+ wikis doesn't sound manageable, if you have no means of comparing the translation progress between the pages. Molldust (talk) 23:24, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Figured out that SMW properties are incompatible... well that makes it easy. No more wrapping - everything will be done once by "hand/script". Molldust (talk) 17:25, 4 January 2017 (UTC)


 * English wiki must not break in the process!
 * By default, as long as only language pages are removed, this wiki suffers no damage. Molldust (talk) 09:55, 24 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Will /zh-hans also be moved and called dota2-zh.gamepedia.com? If so, can we deprecate/remove zh-hant?
 * Ideally there would be a switcher thing between simplified and traditional, like Minecraft wiki does. It's not a huge priority though, most views are to /zh-hans. - Lemoncake  (talk) 10:51, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * If minecraft uses some sort of switcher, i am unaware of it and you would have to coordinate with them to figure out what they do. — Game widow (talk) 13:18, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * This is great --Dotalim0204 (talk) 11:44, 7 January 2017 (UTC)


 * That's probably not even the full list of considerations
 * Feel free to edit and comment. Molldust (talk) 09:55, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Migration process
We are ready to go my opinion. I don't know how the transfer works exactly. I guess it works like this:


 * 1) Fetch all /lang pages with a query
 * 2) Export all /lang pages with Special:Export
 * 3) Rename all pages and links from Page/lang to Page on a local PC
 * 4) Import to the new wiki via Special:Import
 * 5) Copy-paste or export-import necessary templates
 * 6) Complain about all the broken stuff
 * 7) Fix everything
 * 8) Delete the /lang pages from the en wiki

Paging Game widow right now. Hopefully that's everything that must be done and good luck to the translators! Lemon might want to make a reddit announcement.

Responsibilities are most likely going to look like this. Doesn't mean everything has to work after a week, but just so that somebody can delete/move pages. Molldust (talk) 12:30, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Talent infobox, adding to "sources of..."
Like items and skills, there should be a simple infobox for eg Viper first Lvl 20 talent, so they can be added to "sources of..." pages.

Evasion, cooldown reduction and spell amplification all need the talents added to them. The 4 spells and items which grant gold can now have all the +passive gold talents added to the list, and Respawn time could be tweaked to replace the huge table with a simple list, followed by the ways the respawn timer can be altered (bloodstone, scythe, list of talents, buyback adding time to next death)

Personally I think all the talents which add stats or improve traits based on str/agi/int can be added to the relevant pages, but shouldn't be mixed in with the current lists.


 * Of course it would be nice, but we just don't have the time to do this for every mechanics page. Any volunteers would be welcome. - Lemoncake  (talk) 22:55, 10 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Work in progress: Template:TalentListRich Molldust (talk) 21:30, 10 January 2017 (UTC)