User talk:Lemoncream/Archive 3

Automatic categorisation for players by role
Hi Lemon! I wanted to suggest adding automatic categorisation by role to the Template:Player infobox through the already existing |role= parameter, so if someone enters |role=Midlaner the category gets added automatically. I'm not quiet sure how the templates work and don't want to mess something up by trying, but I thing it would make a really good addition to the Template. --Litzsch (talk) 16:45, 1 June 2017 (UTC)


 * We could, but we'd probably need to separate the parameters into  etc, which might be lot of work... what you're doing now is fine, really. However, we're not really supposed to copy stuff from Liquidpedia, especially not the text. Maybe just the records? -  Lemoncake  (talk) 17:42, 1 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I can help you. It can even remain one parameter by checking if it contains certain strings, which decide the categorization. If you want me to implement it, we need to agree on fixed terms for the categories (e.g. "Midlaner" vs "Solo Mid", capitalization doesn't matter btw). --Psion1C (talk) 19:40, 1 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Okay go ahead - Lemoncake  (talk) 19:56, 1 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Actually, capitalization does matter (not for the categorization, but for the display of the role in the infobox). So just give me a list of exact role names and their respective categories. I could even put all the players which do not fall in any of these categories (e.g. due to wrong role name) in a list, which can be fixed then. --Psion1C (talk) 20:11, 1 June 2017 (UTC)


 * 1: Carry, Safelane, Safelaner, Hardcarry, Hard Carry, Hard-Carry
 * 2: Midlaner, Midlane, Solo Mid, Mid, Middle, Solo Middle, Solo-Mid, Solo-Middle
 * 3: Offlaner, Offlane, Solo Offlane
 * 4/5: Support, Hard Support, Hard-Support, Roamer (maybe Ganker)
 * I think those are most of the ones that are being used right now, though it might be useful to try to establish one that should be used consistently? --Litzsch (talk) 20:35, 1 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Yea, establishing one and only was my intention. I agree whit your choices. What about the role of the captain, should it be considered too here? Also are the category names "Carries", "Midlanes", "Offlanes", and "Supports" fine? --Psion1C (talk) 21:43, 1 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I think, including captain under role is a good idea, since it's an important piece of information about a player that has no other place in the infobox (and it is a separate role imo). I like the category names, but it's up to Lemoncream I think. --Litzsch (talk) 21:55, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Sniper's core items section
Hi.

How can be Desolator and Mask of Madness/Satanic in core items section simultaneously? And what is general recommendation to core items section for heroes ? I'm talking about not only items itself (like BKB for Sven, which I'm 100% agree with; and Vladmir + Aghanim for Lone Druid which I'm completely disagree with for both current 7.* patch and previous patch) - but amount of items that we can mention in core section. For example there are mentioned 5 items (five, Carl!) in Sniper's section - not including boots, and that fills all 6 slots. :)


 * Hello, our items section are just recommended items, it does not that a player should buy every single one listed in a single match. Generally we list the most popular items on Dotabuff, please consider those statistics before adding any entries. Thank you ! - Lemoncake  (talk) 20:04, 26 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you for quick answer. Of course I know that it is only recommendation list, but there are should be some logic, don't you think? Some logic, some sinergy between items etc. I'm not insisting on smth, but may be we should've some general "rules" or approach to it. Just for example:
 * - amount of items (1-2 or up to 6);
 * - timing/cost (no way Daedalus is first/second item - it is always late game item);
 * - sinergy between items (no more than 1 UAM, no mix of different item builds - like new "ranged Lone Druid" build with old "Radiance bear" build) etc.


 * Dotabuff is a good source for new players (IMO, datdota was better before it died), but recommendations here differ from Dotabuff stats (for Sniper, Lone Druid and other heroes) and this stats can change from week to week.


 * Feel free to change the item order and add any notes about timing/synergy you wish to the description. I just don't want people adding uncommon items because they "think it might be good". No core item section has more than a few items, and I'd probably move them to the Situational items section if there were. - Lemoncake  (talk) 20:36, 26 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I hate this stupid uncommon item builds too (sometimes even pro players choose it). :) OK, I'll change/move items to make it more general, thank you.

Languages
Main page names in other languages are different, so do it correct here correct too --Dark2Eagle (talk) 21:58, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Outworld Devourer items
Hi. OD's items section (in a main page) wasn't updated with new template and items section in "Guide" subcategory is empty. Can someone make needed replacements or is here any instruction how to do it ? Thank you.


 * I've only switched about 60 out of 113 heroes to the new template styles, I will get to OD eventually. Or if you would like to help me, you could copy the style from a hero who's already done (like Sven). - Lemoncake  (talk) 04:39, 27 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm talking about "Recommended Items" box - the old-style picture-like box instead of new-style text enumeration. But OK, I'll try to replace it, thank you.

Edits from not logged in users
Are edits from not logged in users are not wanted? So many edits are forbidden and even if it asks for the math equation and you answer it it just doesn't accept. Do you really have such a huge problem with vandalism? If you don't want edits from not logged in users just allow it only for logged in users. Although I think it's defeats the purpose of a Wiki where everyone should be able to edit. 178.2.47.140 22:04, 15 March 2017 (UTC)


 * There are no restrictions on IP edits except for a few spam filters and protected pages. What are you trying to edit? - Lemoncake  (talk) 22:43, 15 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Just trying to save a page with no edits so the categories get updated in german wiki and says everytime I added new external links and asks for a captcha but never accepts or just ignores it. And deleting a section is also forbidden. Don't even know whats the point of this restriction. If I want to do vandalism I can just delete everything thats in the section except the heading. 178.10.246.43 20:20, 20 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I don't know what the point of this edit is. Are you getting filtered on German wiki or English wiki? The abuse logs show only a few people get blocked every few days, and most of the time it's justified. If you just want to refresh the page, you can click on the "More" tab on top and select "Refresh". That's the same thing as re-saving a page.You can also make an account and edit frequently. I can't remove the filter for new users posting external links because that would flood the wiki with advertising bots, sorry. - Lemoncake  (talk) 20:34, 20 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm talking about the german wiki. I don't want that the external link restriciton is removed. I just want that the captcha that is asked is working. If you solve it and click save it will ask it again and again. And it detects that I added external links even if I try to save without any changes. So there is definitely something broken. You can try the Riki page of the german wiki. 178.10.246.43 22:09, 20 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I have some problems with edit too - I tried to contact Psion1C to note a mistake (dummy row in Armor granting items table), but both Armor page discussion and user Psion1C discussion are kind of restricted to edit - after pressing "Save page" button almost nothing happens and page doesn't contains new text.


 * Okay, I think I fixed it by adding css. Try editing now. If it still doesn't work then I will have to ask Curse. - Lemoncake  (talk) 05:17, 21 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I fixed the armor page thing, I forgot to add "structure = hidden" to my sandbox (see ). Regarding the issues with editing pages, I have no idea what's the reason. --Psion1C (talk) 09:44, 21 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you, but some pages still not accessible for edit - for example, OD's main page - I tried to change items section (to "new style" with strategy section), but got message "This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed. If you believe your action was constructive, please inform an administrator of what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: Large deletion of articles by new users". P.S. Psion1C, thank you.


 * I made the edit for you, thanks - Lemoncake  (talk) 11:58, 21 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I highly recommend you to just create an account if you wanna keep editing the wiki in the future, unless ofc you have good reasons not to. It's way more convenient and easier, if you still encounter the problems you just described. --Psion1C (talk) 12:45, 21 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I know, but I don't want any type of registrations, account etc. This wiki is favorably different from others (like TeamLiquid's) with allowing "anonumous" edits.

The problem is still present. The Riki page after you edited it can know be saved without the external link captcha but other pages like the Alchemist page still have the problem. 92.217.37.239 16:17, 21 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I don't know then, it's a technical issue so I'll have to contact Curse about it. For me there is no captcha, even if I log out. It's possible this only happens for people with less than a number of edits. The best thing to do right now is probably make an account, that should resolve it until Curse takes a look at it. This does not seem to happen on English wiki, so maybe it's because of some settings issue. - Lemoncake  (talk) 16:28, 21 March 2017 (UTC)


 * No, it happens on English wiki (the only I use and edit) and I see no captcha - only stupid "your action identified as harmful" message.


 * There are two different issues here. Your problem is entirely different from the other IP editor's. I cannot remove the filter that stops people from blanking out entire sections, it would cause too much vandalism. - Lemoncake  (talk) 08:58, 22 March 2017 (UTC)


 * May be you are right, I'm not sure. But I cannot edit, for example, "Attack_damage" discussion page - and I'm not deleting anything, only trying to add note. I got "A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: Global AF - Short unsigned post on talk page by unregistered user" - what I should do - make short 10 words sentence much longer? I completely agree with protection against vandalism/spam (not sure how much it is the problem for this wiki though), but it creates too negative side-effect.


 * That can fixed by simply signing your comments. Type ~ four times after your comment to sign it. - Lemoncake  (talk) 14:07, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, thank you.176.113.122.107 15:02, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Is the problem investigated? It is still not possible to save articles with external links. Btw the seems to be a problem with semantic media wiki in the german wiki. Below the hero bio box and hero bailities there is a yellow warning triangle where it says "not a valid page name".94.218.170.181 18:18, 27 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I cannot allow IPs to post external links, it would create too much spam. The yellow triangles are caused by pages and properties that have not been imported into German wiki. I will ask our German admins to look at it sometime. - Lemoncake  (talk) 19:03, 27 March 2017 (UTC)


 * So this captcha that is asked after trying to save a page is just a joke to make the editor angry when he try solve it and it is asked again and again. Here is the message from the wiki: Your edit includes new external links. To protect the wiki against automated spam, we kindly ask you to solve the simple sum below and enter the answer in the box in order to save your edit. 94.218.170.181 19:27, 27 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The captcha is not because of external links, it is because of edits from an IP. Either way, it should not be behaving the way it is now. I've put in a request with Curse's technical people, it is up to them to resolve the issue. - Lemoncake  (talk) 19:30, 27 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Just wanna make sure something, can you pls give us an example sum from the captcha you tried to solve, and your result? --Psion1C (talk) 19:43, 27 March 2017 (UTC)


 * here is one: 20-9 = . I wrote in the answer field 11 and pressed save page and it asked me again a new sum 94.218.168.204 14:55, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

These anti vandalism protections are getting more and more ridiculous. Now the system is accusing me for adding a phone number to a new page. I just wanted to add the page Aghanim's Scepter/Upgraded Abilities and copied the part from the main page the sub page. 88.75.210.141 19:23, 10 April 2017 (UTC) edit: I just circumvented the prtotection by creating the page with just the first part of the page and the adding the rest. What is the point of such protections when you can so easily circumvent them. Just another reason that confirmes that these protections only hinders normal editers and not vandals. 88.75.210.141 19:34, 10 April 2017 (UTC)


 * They can be easily circumvented if you have a brain. Bots have no AI to find such solutions and they would vandalize much more than any human is able to. Trolls/human vandals do harm as well, but at least they have to invest their personal lifetime in trying to find attention in the world wide web. Molldust (talk) 19:56, 10 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I don't understand why you are complaining so much, when A: You can just create an account, and all your problems are solved, and B: If these issues were so severe, I'm sure a lot more people would complain about them. --Psion1C (talk) 20:02, 10 April 2017 (UTC)


 * The abuse filters have remained the same since the wiki opened, there are no new restrictions. Admittedly they were not designed for IP editing on a whole new subwiki, but the best way around this is to create an account. - Lemoncake  (talk) 05:01, 11 April 2017 (UTC)


 * The captcha problem is still not fixed so i have to assume it is just for kidding the IP editor. 94.216.176.20 05:54, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Any reason my edits were undo-ed? ( 20:49, 23 June 2017‎ 31.5.99.215) They were the correct indexes and Lemoncream did an undo just for fun WITHOUT EVEN DOUBLE CHECKING if they are correct. I admit I didn't create an account because I am lazy. That is no reason to undo without checking first. The correct ones are: Ok chatwheel_say 0 Careful! chatwheel_say 1 Get Back! chatwheel_say 2 If a user with an account wants to do it, fine. Do it. Please don't undo just because you are lazier than me to check if they are correct. No offense.

Translate Extension
Would it be possible to install the mw:Extension:Translate? It would be really helpful for translating at letting the translated page staying up to date because you can easily see when a change was made in the english wiki. Right now you have to look either at the history or compare both sites which is very very time consuming and boring. 91.38.166.168 16:56, 27 April 2017 (UTC)


 * You are right. The process is not ideal and there's much room for improvement. Unfortunately mw:Extension:Translate is not the solution to the problem in this case. The languages were split up over several sub-wikis for very valid performance and organization reasons. If you have other suggestions that we might not have heard of, please let us know. Molldust (talk) 08:09, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Jugg Arcana Voice Pack Upload
Hi, I went digging through the voice files and found a couple of lore-pertinent voice lines for the Juggernaut arcana voice pack. Is it fine if I upload them here? HyhyMega (talk) 08:34, 6 May 2017 (UTC)


 * All voice response files should have already been uploaded on the wiki. I have already combed through all of Jugg's lines for lore references and used them for citations. Which ones are you talking about exactly? - Lemoncake  (talk) 08:37, 6 May 2017 (UTC)


 * There are additional files for an unreleased voice pack. I've already uploaded a few of them. I couldn't find them on the Juggernaut voice page, so I just assumed that you didn't have them yet. HyhyMega (talk) 08:39, 6 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Ok, our sound guy will look into it and put the lines in the right places. Please don't upload any more files, it messes up our naming scheme. Thank you. - Lemoncake  (talk) 08:42, 6 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The files are all uploaded and can be found at Category:Bladeform Legacy alternative audio responses.  Bu3ny  (talk) 14:54, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

TI7 Chat Wheel Translation
I wanted to posts links to the translations/references of the CN/RUS caster's chat wheel sounds at Chat Wheel, but I don't have much tech knowledge and I'm scared to mess up the wiki page or if my edit doesn't match the formatting. Is it more recommended to just post the links under the TI7 Battle Pass section below the table or should I make a new Trivia section and add them there?

Here are the links, in case other mods/editors want to do it: For Chinese (CN): https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/6b018c/references_of_chinese_chat_wheel_sounds/ For Russian (RUS): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE40-NfHlTM


 * I added them, thank you - Lemoncake  (talk) 22:31, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Category:Help wanted
Does this page allowed for edits or it is for admins/internal use only? Because, for example, OD's and NS's counters page are very OK. 185.189.101.36 13:48, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Neither really meet our standards. I'll remove the header if someone improves it sufficiently. - Lemoncake  (talk) 14:44, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll compare pages with standards.185.189.101.36

bot
mark this accout as bot on en and zh.--Staywikibot (talk) 04:52, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Can't write comments for some reason
For some reason, I cannot write comments on user profiles any more (I didn't make any changes). It says "You do not have permission to add comments or reply. Please make sure you are logged in, have validated your email address, and have performed at least one edit to an article.". Also, is this the correct privacy policy link? --Psion1C (talk) 10:40, 30 September 2017 (UTC)


 * I got the same problem by the way. Also the privacy link should be correct I think, since it applies to all websites, applications and services owned by Twitch. The only one I could find on the Curse website hasn't been updated since 2011 and is filed under legacy content. Also https://www.curse.com/privacy links to the Twitch privacy policy.--Litzsch (talk) 11:16, 30 September 2017 (UTC)


 * I'll ask the Curse people - Lemoncake  (talk) 11:19, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

Block lengths for anonymous users not appropriate
Global blocks must not exceed 2 weeks for anonymous users, as IP addresses change over time. DSquirrelGM (talk) 02:15, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

7.07 update progress
Is there any log (manual or auto) where heroes/items/etc update progress listed?185.189.101.67


 * no, just gotta go through every thing in the patch notes on by one - Lemoncake  (talk) 07:03, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Pangolier
I just wanted to know why you reverted my addition, did I just word it poorly? I am certain that units on the path of the dash take one extra instance of Swashbuckle damage.CrazyKSK (talk) 14:20, 5 November 2017 (UTC)


 * CrazyKSK is right: The first one is when casting Swashbuckle in front of Axe and second one when casting it on top of him.--Litzsch (talk) 14:55, 5 November 2017 (UTC)


 * here is a gif cause I felt like making one CrazyKSK (talk) 15:32, 5 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Most likely a bug. If you put many units in the dash path, only like 3 of them get randomly hit. The ability also doesn't mention anything about this. I created a dev thread about this, we can put it under known bugs.  Bu3ny  (talk) 15:40, 5 November 2017 (UTC)


 * It might be an unintended mechanic however it can hit as many units as you can fit in its path it just has a very narrow AOE GIF CrazyKSK (talk) 16:09, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

target/targets
Nullify is single-target ability. What is the reason to insist on "targets" ? The page is in the bad state btw (Weaver, for example should be excluded from the list).185.189.101.220


 * It can be cast more than once? Singular is fine but it wasn't grammatically correct in that sentence. The page is done by taking the popular heroes from Dotabuff. If you're going to change it don't put in anything too unpopular - Lemoncake  (talk) 09:06, 12 November 2017 (UTC)


 * "It can be cast more than once" - what?! No, it cannot. It's single-target ability (as mentioned, "Ability: Target Unit") as many other items/abilities like Orchid, Abyssal etc. Or should we everywhere change "target" to "targets" now ? No way it's better in terms of grammar...185.189.101.220


 * It can be used more than once after cooldown. It doesn't really matter, one refers to a single cast while the other refers to general usage throughout the game. There's a lot of stuff written either way on the wiki, and the meaning is the same. The original needed a "the" or "his" before "target" to be grammatically correct. Please find something else to worry about. - Lemoncake  (talk) 09:25, 12 November 2017 (UTC)


 * OK, I'm done. And even if I'm not gonna change it (especially heroes list) in nearest future, after you mentioning Dotabuff as a reason/source for recommendations I should say that a) it is not a good idea/source to take recommendations from etc; b) even in Dotabuff's list MK, WK and Ursa (and even Storm Spirit, LOL) mentioned higher than AM. c) even in AM's list Nulllifier not in TOP-50 (TOP-fifty!) of AM's items usage (and for Weaver it's not in the top of course).185.189.101.220


 * You're right, I was only looking at the item page and not the hero page on Dotabuff. I don't play Dota much anymore and nobody else is doing these hero lists, so it's not from personal experience. Change it if you want. - Lemoncake  (talk) 09:41, 12 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Dude, there is no much desire to make a work when someone comes and runies it because "in Dotabuff list Weaver/NS/Void mentioned higher than Alchemist" and insisting on changes, especially when this someone is admin. And it's not the first time. Misspells, mistakes, format etc - no problem.


 * I've never done anything like that unless it's totally wrong. 99% of your edits are unchanged, right? - Lemoncake  (talk) 10:10, 12 November 2017 (UTC)


 * You did at least once with Aghs (and there were other cases too probably). And if 99% unchanged it's better to think before replace recommendation with "popular in Dotabuff".


 * The Agh's case was right tho, it was viable on the heroes you removed. We need some kind of guideline for recommendations, Dotabuff is not perfect but still better than random people's opinions - Lemoncake  (talk) 10:44, 12 November 2017 (UTC)


 * "The Agh's case was right tho" - well, that's even funny, that's what I'm talking about - some strange combination of arrogance and ignorance. You was right because it is you or because I was left or because of what? I can ***with numbers*** prove you that you was wrong if we (or you) will tentatively agree criteria (pickrate, winrate etc). And I agree that we need some guideline (though I've saw one guideline somewhere here mentioning smth like "don not copy/use info from other sites, do your own work"), but it sounds like that some people's opinions (your ofc) is better than other's (my)... :-)


 * The Agh's heroes were restored because it was relatively popular on Dotabuff. That's based on something, not just my opinion. I don't agree with using win rate for recommendations. Popularity should come first, that's the point. In terms of determining how the wiki is written, my opinion does come before yours. I'm the admin and it's my job to make these decisions. - Lemoncake  (talk) 12:09, 12 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Popularity should come first, that's the point. - that's exactly what I called ignorance. First of all, popularity changes literally every week and depends on a level (low/high/pro). And insisting that popularity is more important than "synergy" (or at least some success) between item and hero is no way to make high-quality content. But even if to agree with this point (popularity over brain) - that's just not true, that's lie. Because, for example, AM isn't mentioned in AghS recommendation list at all, while SF (much less popular/logical/successful) is mentioned, same with Jugg vs Meepo. And it happens not just with AghS - for example we are not mentioning Deso for Troll at all and only small note for Ursa while Razor and WR are in top list. And I'm the admin and I'm right - that exactly what I called arrogance, being stubborn instead of trying make things better.185.189.101.220


 * If I let you put in recommendations based on your idea of effectiveness, there will be endless fighting over what is or isn't good based on your own internal calculations that nobody sees, and contradicts what is visibly popular. Do you want to administrate over all those conflicts? Because that job falls to me. Outdated popularity rankings are supposed to be changed, that's a problem with lack of time, not the system itself. Supplying unusual recommendations makes the wiki less useful in the eyes of most people. No resource site for any game tries to do this. Adhering by a verifiable standard of popularity is precisely what makes things better. I've actually given thought to how recommendations should be done consistently because it's my job. You haven't. If you don't like it, leave. - Lemoncake  (talk) 15:03, 12 November 2017 (UTC)