Talk:Armor

Negative Armor Values seem incorrect
I suspected that this section was incorrect so I went into single player and tested it. They are definitely incorrect. -20 does not display as +71% damage (it's +54%) and decreasing armor past -20 both displays an increase in the hero stats (+60% at -26 armor) and does clearly have an effect on damage dealt in the combat log. I'm not going to bother posting screenshots because it's incredibly easy to see it for yourself in single player. I don't see any flaws in my experimentation so unless someone can find one this section should be rectified.
 * I agree, this negative armor disparity/"bug" between WC3 DotA and Dota 2 has existed since forever. I haven't found any comment from the developers on this issue. Best course of action is to update the tables and graphs to how it has worked for years, and move the incorrect info about DotA to a section about the disparity. --Artorp (talk) 12:17, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Tables and graphs have been updated to correctly reflect how negative armor works in Dota 2. --Artorp (talk) 16:08, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Armor Stacking section
One part of this section reads:
 * This is called "Yolo hit points", or YHP. A Hero with 10 armor has 160% of their maximum hit points as YHP, meaning that if a Hero had 1000 hit points, it would take 1600 points of physical damage to kill them.

It comes without saying that I think it should be changed back to Effective Hit Points and EHP. I mean, seriously, I haven't checked the page history yet but whoever did that must have been out of their mind.

Edit: Alright, it was just some nerd called YoloTSwaggins. Change reverted.

Yet another edit: The infant's at it again.

Small error in the EHP section
Under "Armor Stacking", one sentence currently reads, "A hero with 0 armor and a base HP of 1000 will increase his EHP by 160% if he increases his armor to 10." This should be "increase his EHP by 60%", because increasing by 160% would mean an EHP of 2600, instead of 1600. I was not allowed to make the change myself.

Suggested change to charts
May I suggest we add a chart for EHP?



I also have no idea what's going on in the "Practical meaning of armor reduction" chart. Would it be possible to explain it more clearly, or remove it?

Armor stacking section, EHP example with Sven
Apparently, the "3056" number which Sven should take to die is wrong. "3684", as 168,76% of Sven's HP, is the correct value. Tested it with bots, and it took 25lvl Drow to kill 25lvl Sven ~15 hits, which is about right (255 dmg avg., 3825 dmg ttl).

Description of Table
Underneath the table, the description just repeats exactly what the table says, but not as well. Is it really necessary? Lennbot (talk) 10:59, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Physical Resistance
I recommend a small subchapter dedicated to physical resistance which is influenced by armor. It seems to be different for each hero, depending on agility and armor, but I haven't found any real info about it; it's just based on observation, but I figure some of you gents may know more about it.


 * You mean like this? There's nothing besides armor reducing physical damage, besides the damage blocking abilities like vanguard or stuff like dispersion. Bu3ny (talk) 20:58, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Negative armor graph mistakes
I switched around a couple of graphs to how they were at the start of this year, thought I'd explain why (and maybe avoid an edit war?).

In January, a graph I had made was mistakenly mislabeled as being for the WC3 version of the game. This is incorrect, it was made with the Dota 2 armor formula, not for the old engine. Unfortunately this mistake wasn't caught by anyone and it stayed for months.

The graph was later moved to the "Armor disparity" section, and was replaced with File:Dearmor.png. However, it uses the same formula as File:Dota_2_armor_debuff_efficiency.png, while providing less info.

So, to recap:

File:Dota_2_bonus_dmg.png was the old old graph, it was based on a WC3 formula and moved to a subsection on this disparity. It was correctly labeled as outdated.

I created File:Dota_2_armor_debuff_efficiency.png, which uses the correct formula.

File:Dota_2_armor_debuff_efficiency.png was later mistakenly mislabeled as incorrect, and mistakenly replaced with File:Dearmor.png (by User:Szqec) which used the same formula.

And I now reverted those changes, unfortunately this leaves File:Dearmor.png deprecated.

Artorp (talk) 00:21, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

For easy calculation and thinking
(A > 0)

effective HP is designed to be 0.06*A, thus damage multiplier is reciprocal of eHP ( 1 / (0.06*A) )

(A < 0)

damage multiplier function is designed to be symmetrical to (0,0), 2-(1/ 0.06*(-A)), thus eHP

Duplicate Witch Doctor armor value
Seems there's a rogue element in the list of heroes; the list of Armor of Heroes contains 2 entries for Witch Doctor, one of which is real, and one of which is a redlink to "https://dota2.gamepedia.com/index.php?title=Lost_love_spells_%2B27625539229_google.com&action=edit&redlink=1"

Which is weird. Can someone check the hero registry for this? PaladinAHOne (talk) 08:54, 6 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Yea, very strange. That page never existed, why would it appear in smw.. Hope that creating and deleting fixes it. If you see it appear in other smw lists, try re-saving the page.  Bu3ny  (talk) 14:08, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

2 thumbnails having wrong scale
For some reason, the two thumbnails File:Dota 2 armor graph plain.svg and File:Dota 2 armor disparity plain.svg are not being scaled properly on the armor page. Any ideas on how to fix them? --Psion1C (talk) 15:57, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
 * This seems to be a browser problem (see e.g. Internet Explorer, I know it sucks). Seems like the file type .svg causes this, so it could be fixed by converting the 2 files to something more standard like .png. --Psion1C (talk) 17:55, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

armor chart and hero pages using different armor calculations
The armor chart calculates armor by multiplying the heroes agility by (.14), while hero pages list the armor as calculated by dividing by (7). For instance, level 1 Abaddon is listed as having 1.43 armor on the hero page and 1.38 armor in the chart.


 * Fixed.  Bu3ny  (talk) 23:05, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

hero armor list column title
In the hero armor list it says max main armor in the last column main but the popup says without attribute bonus; according to the definition above, shouldn't that rather be called base armor? EDIT: I see now it is not without any attribute bonuses, but only without the old attribute bonuses that could be leveled instead of leveling a skill. Maybe someone should clarify that only stats from items and talents are not included, but normal leveling attribute bonuses are.


 * Updated the hover text.  Bu3ny  (talk) 20:57, 14 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Can you make this table collapsed ? 176.113.122.107 17:59, 23 March 2017 (UTC)


 * OK, did it myself. May be not ideal, but much better than before.176.113.122.107 20:48, 23 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Your last edit (extra header) has broken entire page.176.113.122.107 21:26, 23 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Fixed with Template:Hero attack damage table end as new outrotemplate, though I'm not sure if we should create "Template:Hero armor table end" extra for this. --Psion1C (talk) 23:17, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Duplicate Tranquil Boots in table
There are two row for Tranquil Boots in armor granting items table - one for active and for disabled. They gave exact same values, so second one should be removed. Can someone make a changes ?


 * Nobody saw the question or nobody agree ? 176.113.122.107 17:58, 23 March 2017 (UTC)


 * This is not the biggest problem, but I agree: The table should only include on their own (no active or inactive state, since they are all the same item). Maybe create subobjects for "Tranquil Boots (Active)" and "Tranquil Boots (Inactive)" instead, delete their current pages, and remove "game = Dota 2 Hidden" from the main Tranquil Boots page. --Psion1C (talk) 19:57, 23 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Or just keep it like it is because it works everywhere else and don't bother with this one trivial case.  Bu3ny  (talk) 20:44, 23 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Well, if you think that duplicates are OK, then yes. But even armlet has only one row in the table.176.113.122.107 21:30, 23 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Fixed. --Psion1C (talk) 11:58, 24 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Well, I don't know what do you call "fixed", but now we have 3 (three) tranquils in a table, instead of one.176.113.122.107 20:47, 24 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Yea, my bad, shouldn't have been writing so early. It's fixed, just waiting for an admin to delete the 2 pages. Btw, there is a sign button (a signing pencil) at the top of the editor. --Psion1C (talk) 21:01, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

incorrect/incoherent item armor values
I noticed that in the 'armor granting items' list, some of the values include actives and auras, but others don't. In detail, Guardian Greaves actually grant the same armor as Mekansm, and Crimson Guard the same as Buckler, but the list shows different values. Also, Guardian Greavess boosted (below 20% health) armor bonus could be included in the list. I tried to fix it, but the list only consists of links, so i have no clue how to corrrect those entries.


 * It'll get reworked soonish. We'll most likely make that list show passive items bonuses only, and list the ability bonuses like non-item abilities.  Bu3ny  (talk) 21:14, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Effective Health section
The formula in the Effective Health section appears to be correct, but the Sven examples and the table do not appear to be using the same formula. Can someone else check my math? I get 1605 EHP at 10 armor.

chayashida (talk) 16:47, 6 December 2018 (PST-8)


 * Basically fixed. --Elite stay (talk) 06:10, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

The "Main armor" doesn't take into account of the change that AGI hero gets more armor from each AGI
But because it uses ParserFunctions, I don't know how to change it. --75.111.128.192 08:30, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

"Main Armor" values are wrong.
The "Main Armor" values are wrong for both the starting values and the max values. "Table of Hero Attributes" has the correct values. Most of the values are off by about 0.10 to 0.16. For example, Abaddon should be 1.68, not 1.83. I don't know enough about these tables to know how to edit them.


 * Fixed  Bu3ny  (talk) 10:19, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Vladimir aura armor bonus information is wrong (showing 0.5 instead of 4).
On the Armor page the Vladimir aura armor bonus information is wrong (showing 0.5 instead of 4).
 * -- Sanhard (talk) 13:14, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Damage multiplier section mistake
The equation in the damage multiplier section hits 0 at 225 armor and goes to -1/12 as armor goes to infinity but the section says that it goes to 0 as armor goes to infinity. "damage multiplier = 1 - ((0.052 × armor) ÷ (0.9 + 0.048 × |armor|)). The damage multiplier limits are 25/12 (roughly 2.08) and 0, for infinitely negative and positive armor, respectively."--100.16.157.193 16:45, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Effective HP non diminishing fallacy
The Effective HP sub section states

''At 0 armor, 1 armor grants roughly 5.8% effective HP. This means a unit with 1000 health and 1 armor can take 1058 physical damage. At 30 armor, this figure scales upwards to 7.7%, meaning armor is more effective at higher values''

The first half is true, in regards to marginal percentage increase in effective HP when going from 0 to 1 armor. However the 2nd part stating a further increase past 30 is not supported by the function. The armor mitigation function, 1-((0.052 × armor) ÷ (0.9 + 0.048 × |armor|)), is a rational function with an asymptote. This causes armor's marginal benefit to be diminishing as total armor increases. The function also has significant diminishing marginal benefit in negative amounts past approximately 15.

Am I stating the obvious, or is there a general misconception stated by the wiki, which is "armor is more effective at higher values"? I hold the exact opposite is true.

--Defessus (talk) 16:44, 1 December 2019 (UTC)